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HPhack

Joined: 10 Jan 2007 Posts: 258 Location: Cambridge, MA
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Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:01 am Post subject: the significance of 10-31-99 |
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I was trying to think of where I could be useful, and there's one thing you folks have always had questions about that I probably sent the message I didn't want to talk about. I've definitely been defensive about it, but only because once upon a time lots of sleezy tabloids wanted to interview "the survivor". None of them really wanted to hear what I had to say, they just wanted me to play the role of someone who narrowly escaped whatever horrible fate their other experts would speculate about. It made me bitter for a long time, and I need to learn to let that go.
I'm still not sure I believe that what happened in 1999 is related to what we're going through now, but there are enough eerie coincidences that I understand why people are interested.
I guess the best place to start is the picnic the expedition had the Sunday before we left, on October 24th. That's when I got hurt, it really wasn't that bad, just a few bruised ribs. Sometimes even "touch" football can get a little rough. Adrianna made a pretty convincing argument that night (while I was still hopped up on some nice pain pills) that taking a chance of re-injuring it spelunking away from any kind of medical care was stupid.
On Monday morning, I went in to tell Dr. Bhaskaracharaya that they should find a replacement for me on the team. Miles was in the grad student office, prepping for his next 101 lecture, and immediately popped his head in and said he'd be interested. She asked me to bring Miles up to speed, but to be honest, there wasn't much to explain. My role was just barely more advanced than being a Sherpa. Whatever the physics team was doing required alot of very high speed data capture from a variety of sensors -- those went into a rack-mount patch bay with redundant serial outputs that went to both disk arrays (not my responsibility) and to a feed to satelite (which was the real P.I.T.A and also not my responsibility.) I got to teach Miles' 101 classload instead of being the expedition cable monkey.
Adrianna left with the rest of the crew on Friday, the plane tickets where to D.C. and then they were supposed to drive west to some god-foresaken little town to spend the night. The next morning, October 30th, that would have been the day they started their descent into the cave system. That was going to be a 2 day descent, a day of experiments, followed up a 2 day ascent. Five days underground with no real contact to the outside world except when that satelite link was live.
When no data came streaming out of the hole on November 1 as expected, everyone assumed there must have been damaged equipment or something similar. There was still no contact from the expedition on November 3rd, when they should have completed their ascent. That's when the rumors really started flying around campus, rumors that the University had called the local authorities for search and rescue. Those rumors continued to spread for days until the media finally grabbed ahold of it November 8, the morning after volunteer spelunkers had located the team's basecamp in a cave system called Taylor Run. Once the "University Researchers Lost in Cave" headlines started flowing, the Feds moved in and took over the search.
There were still lots of problems with radio communications and with the fact that these caves weren't known too well, even the spelunkers who had been there hadn't mapped much of it yet. Alot of people risked their lives looking for them, though. My real complaints have always been with the media coverage, they just wanted to milk the story for every ounce of attention and speculation they could possibly wring from it.
They gave up the search the week of Thanksgiving, about three weeks after they started. Authorities said they had explored up to a two-day depth from the basecamp, but found no signs of the missing gear or people. The major media pressure had let up anyway (no one wanted a depressing story for Thanksgiving) and the new media quickly focused after that on the fears of Y2K blackouts interrupting Dick Clark or something. But the tragedy had its own more lurid press coverage, dominated by the tasteless tabloid sleeze and all their stupid speculation. Check out isle "journalism" tucked in between miracle diet ads.
I didn't bother to re-enroll for school the next semester, there was just too much pressure and too much loss. I had to get out of Arkham, somewhere that I was reminded of all of that every day. I guess that was the beginning of learning to hide my head in the sand.
Why is any of this even relevant? I guess in part because the Lucky 5 code seems to count down things from October 31, 1999 (which could be completely coincidental), in part because some of those tabloid rumors like to connect cults like Chorazos to what "really happened" (could also be coincidental), and in part because B.A. dreamed their names up from her nightmare (which seems harder to just write off).
I realize this isn't a ton of information, but at least it is all in one place now. _________________ "Perhaps a longer stick is in order." - Unknown Quantity |
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Dante

Joined: 20 Apr 2007 Posts: 578 Location: Chicago, IL
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Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:24 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for sharing this information, Howard. I'm sure that you really would rather not rehash all of this, but like you, I feel like there have been enough coincidences that it can't be avoided.
I'm sure I'll have more questions but for now I can only think of this:
When the rescuers found the basecamp, did it look like they had taken the experimental equipment with them? That is, does it seem like they could have actually gotten the experiment going? When was the satellite feed supposed to commence? Was the data capture being transmitted via the feed live or only after the data capture had already happened?
I guess I'm just trying to figure out whether their disappearance could be related to something going wrong with the experiment..
However, trying to pinpoint the timeline:
October 30: enter cave; Day 1 of descent
October 31: Day 2 of descent
November 1: Day of experiments
November 2: Day 1 of ascent
November 3: Day 2 of ascent; exit cave
So, if October 31 is the 'significant' date, this came a day before the planned day of experiments. Hrm... |
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Noyb

Joined: 01 Aug 2007 Posts: 135
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Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:05 am Post subject: |
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Thank you for sharing. I understand how hard this must be for you.
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| the plane tickets were to D.C |
If the cave incident is related to all this, then maybe DC chose his name based on this location, not his initials.
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| media finally grabbed ahold of it November 8 |
This is difficult, but did you happen to keep any of the news articles relating to this? Maybe there was a detail that didn't make sense until now?
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| a cave system called Taylor Run |
From a quick google search, Taylor Run has not been fully mapped as of 2001, after a seven year effort. So I guess that confirms that the bodies are either deeper than expected...or gone.
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| the Feds moved in and took over the search. |
By any chance did ever you ask PoliticalTexan to use his government contacts to see what they found?
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| B.A. dreamed their names up from her nightmare (which seems harder to just write off). |
I'm still skeptical of BA's psychic abilities. At first, I thought she was just messing around with you, but as time went on good people died. She knows more than what she's letting on, and the simple explanation is that she's connected, getting us to trust her drip feed of information while the world falls apart around us.
Again, sorry for all the questions, but we're all in danger. You're right to adapt an attitude of "no more secrets." What we keep hidden can and will harm us. _________________ "Some humans would do almost anything to see if it was possible to do it. If you put a large switch in some cave somewhere with a sign on it saying ‘End of the World Switch, Please Do Not Touch’ the paint wouldn’t have time to dry." - Terry Pratchett |
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HPhack

Joined: 10 Jan 2007 Posts: 258 Location: Cambridge, MA
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Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| Dante wrote: |
| When the rescuers found the basecamp, did it look like they had taken the experimental equipment with them? That is, does it seem like they could have actually gotten the experiment going? When was the satellite feed supposed to commence? Was the data capture being transmitted via the feed live or only after the data capture had already happened? |
Nope, all the technical gear was gone, but most of the support gear was still in staff. That's the part that never made any sense: if they had pressed ahead for the second day of descent, they would have brought the camp with them.
The data feed was supposed to kick on sometime on the 1st, whenever they had everything setup. Spool recording went on automatically, nothing ever came down the satelite channel. It was a pretty rickety idea in the first place, though, involving a laser and mirrors to get around the restrictions of the caves, which was why the disk spools were dragged down there as well (as the secondary storage.) Of course, those drives are among the gear never found.
| Dante wrote: |
October 30: enter cave; Day 1 of descent
October 31: Day 2 of descent
November 1: Day of experiments
November 2: Day 1 of ascent
November 3: Day 2 of ascent; exit cave
So, if October 31 is the 'significant' date, this came a day before the planned day of experiments. Hrm... |
Yup, and if that timeline were true, they would have struck that basecamp before continuing their descent on the 31st. So whatever happened, it wasn't part of the plan. _________________ "Perhaps a longer stick is in order." - Unknown Quantity |
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HPhack

Joined: 10 Jan 2007 Posts: 258 Location: Cambridge, MA
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Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Noyb wrote: |
| This is difficult, but did you happen to keep any of the news articles relating to this? Maybe there was a detail that didn't make sense until now? |
Nope, saving news coverage didn't even occur to me at the time.
| Noyb wrote: |
| By any chance did ever you ask PoliticalTexan to use his government contacts to see what they found? |
The Outpost didn't even come into existence until months after this, and it used to be a bustling place. I really only got to know Alan well in the last few years when things were much quieter around here. Well, until recently that is. _________________ "Perhaps a longer stick is in order." - Unknown Quantity |
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Jjason

Joined: 21 Apr 2007 Posts: 424 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Dante wrote: |
| So, if October 31 is the 'significant' date, this came a day before the planned day of experiments. Hrm... |
This makes sense to me - if the satellite never started receiving data, that means that experiment never started. _________________ WHO IS SAINT FENLINE?
"We remain convinced that this is the best defensive posture to adopt in order to minimize casualties when the Great Old Ones return from beyond the stars to eat our brains." - from The Concrete Jungle by Charles Stross |
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Biff

Joined: 22 Apr 2007 Posts: 439
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Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| HPhack wrote: |
| Of course, those drives are among the gear never found. |
OK, this is a long shot and total WTF speculation, but is it possible to determine if the drive Sapagoo recovered could have in any way come from the expedition? KnowwhatImean? |
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Dante

Joined: 20 Apr 2007 Posts: 578 Location: Chicago, IL
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Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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Okay I think I asked this a long time ago, but I don't remember if it was answered:
Who chose this particular cave as the site for the experiments??
Also:
You said that Adrianna was one of the spelunking guides? Who were the other guides? What kind of spelunking experience did she have?
Last edited by Dante on Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mapmaker

Joined: 20 Apr 2007 Posts: 236 Location: Honolulu, HI
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Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Biff wrote: |
| OK, this is a long shot and total WTF speculation, but is it possible to determine if the drive Sapagoo recovered could have in any way come from the expedition? KnowwhatImean? |
I mean, easy way to disprove it would be to look at the drive's specs. |
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Biff

Joined: 22 Apr 2007 Posts: 439
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Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Mapmaker wrote: |
| Biff wrote: |
| OK, this is a long shot and total WTF speculation, but is it possible to determine if the drive Sapagoo recovered could have in any way come from the expedition? KnowwhatImean? |
I mean, easy way to disprove it would be to look at the drive's specs. |
Can we pursue this line of thought? The drive found was a 35GB capacity if I recall correctly.
Calling Sapagoo. |
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HPhack

Joined: 10 Jan 2007 Posts: 258 Location: Cambridge, MA
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Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Dante wrote: |
| Who chose this particular cave as the site for the experiments?? |
The physics faculty, and they'd tend to look down their noses and snicker if I asked questions that revealed I didn't understand what they were up to. "Not your responsibility" was a typical response. The CS team was there to deal with the issues of how you capture that much data when you don't have electrical outlets (not that tough) and how you get a satelite connection out of a cave (quite a bit tougher). The cave was already part of the equation by the time the project was presented to me, at least.
| Dante wrote: |
| You said that Adrianna was one of the spelunking guides? Who were the other guides? What kind of spelunking experience did she have? |
She was pretty outdoorsy in general, rock climbing, hiking, all kinds of stuff and had done some nature guide work in the past. I'm sure where they found the rest of the guides, but Adrianna had me put in the good word for her application (which amounted to asking, "Hey, can we bring girlfriend? She's good with ropes!") _________________ "Perhaps a longer stick is in order." - Unknown Quantity |
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Sinyx

Joined: 20 Apr 2007 Posts: 241 Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for telling your story Howard. I can't imagine how hard this is for you.
If the base camp was still set up, wouldn't this mean whatever happened occurred at their camp before they could pack up for the 2nd day of descent (early morning of the 31st). I know you once mentioned that the authorities insisted they fell down a shaft where their bodies slid out of view and deemed it an accident, but Taylor Run's been mapped now so wouldn't they have found some evidence? I can't imagine the whole crew accidentally falling down a crevice, and if they had continued hiking down they would have packed up their whole camp.
Only the expedition members and their important equipment was gone. This all sounds fishy to me, especially in light of everything that is happening now. Is there any chance they could have been followed and attacked by others? Or that some of the crew could have rebelled and did something to the remaining members?
I think checking the found hard drive for indications of it being from this expedition's a good idea. |
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Biff

Joined: 22 Apr 2007 Posts: 439
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Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Sinyx wrote: |
| I think checking the found hard drive for indications of it being from this expedition's a good idea. |
Along the same line of thought:
Howard, do you recognize any of the equipment from the 858 storage locker?
Specifically, do the monks contain any devices that look familiar? (I realize it's almost 8 years on from the initial happenings) |
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WolfHawk Moderator
Joined: 20 Apr 2007 Posts: 467 Location: Midwest USA
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Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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I want to add my thanks, Howard, for sharing the expedition information with us. I know it's hard.
| Sinyx wrote: |
If the base camp was still set up, wouldn't this mean whatever happened occurred at their camp before they could pack up for the 2nd day of descent (early morning of the 31st). ...and if they had continued hiking down they would have packed up their whole camp.
Is there any chance they could have been followed and attacked by others? Or that some of the crew could have rebelled and did something to the remaining members?
I think checking the found hard drive for indications of it being from this expedition's a good idea. |
So the disappearance may have taken place while they slept.
As for being followed, I don't see how that would be possible without our crew hearing them coming. It sounds as if the cave is pretty hard - I can't imagine the earlier group wouldn't have heard another group coming in behind them and had time to make preparations.
The hard drive does need to be checked, but, correct me if I'm wrong, 35G is pretty small even for 1999. Standard hard drive sizes would have been 60-120G by then. Howard, do you have any idea of the equipment specs? DID they include 35G hard drives? _________________ Having abandoned my search for the truth I am now looking for a good fantasy.
I think I am therefore I am I think. |
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Sapagoo

Joined: 20 Apr 2007 Posts: 207 Location: Atlanta, GA
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Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Biff wrote: |
| Mapmaker wrote: |
| Biff wrote: |
| OK, this is a long shot and total WTF speculation, but is it possible to determine if the drive Sapagoo recovered could have in any way come from the expedition? KnowwhatImean? |
I mean, easy way to disprove it would be to look at the drive's specs. |
Can we pursue this line of thought? The drive found was a 35GB capacity if I recall correctly.
Calling Sapagoo. |
I can check tomorrow. (it's in a safety deposit box right now, so no one in the cult or large flying birds can get to it). I don't remember the capacity off the top of my head. the 35 you remember might be the 35MB of data that was on the Hard Drive.
I doubt this Hard Drive was from the satellite expedition, mainly because all the files had date/time stamps that were recent. I don't remember a single file having a date/time stamp from last year, much less 8 years ago. Surely something would be sitting there. |
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