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Unknown Quantity

Joined: 26 Apr 2007 Posts: 287 Location: NOT HERE
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Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Rowan wrote: |
I'm sorry it has to be like this, but one must do what one must do. And I have to protect the Dreamers.
Goodbye. |
Good luck. I hope our paths cross again, one day. _________________ "A sword by itself rules nothing. It only comes alive in skilled hands." |
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Dante

Joined: 20 Apr 2007 Posts: 578 Location: Chicago, IL
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Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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I'm pretty much speechless.
1) You are blaming the wrong parties. If the problem is that we contacted Peter, that was because, gee, you were completely out of touch and we were desperate to find out what was going on, especially after Art did his usual drama queen thing and tried to get everyone all stirred up. It is a biiiiiiig jump from that to blaming SO for DCs kidnapping.
2) WHICH THE REST OF US STILL DON'T KNOW THE DETAILS OF, BTW |
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Transtar

Joined: 25 Sep 2007 Posts: 260 Location: Marietta, Ga
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| Dante wrote: |
I'm pretty much speechless.
1) You are blaming the wrong parties. If the problem is that we contacted Peter, that was because, gee, you were completely out of touch and we were desperate to find out what was going on, especially after Art did his usual drama queen thing and tried to get everyone all stirred up. It is a biiiiiiig jump from that to blaming SO for DCs kidnapping.
2) WHICH THE REST OF US STILL DON'T KNOW THE DETAILS OF, BTW |
Also not to blame the victim here, but DC didn't exactly keep us in the loop either. We knew DC had a colorful past, but that was the extent of what we knew. I don't want to have DC in their hands for any longer than necessary, but DC's hands aren't exactly perfectly clean either.
There is plenty of blame to spread around, I feel a great deal responsible because if I had chosen a better v-mail number all of us here on the boards wouldn't have been on edge and looking for any info of our team.
But now what is done is done, we cannot change the past. If you want to go off and sulk and try to change what happened then go ahead, however I'm going to stay here and try to make a difference and try to help him as well as BA and the other dreamers. The best thing we can do now is digest what happened and formulate a plan as quickly as possible. _________________ Avatar from the Girl Genius Comic |
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Sinyx

Joined: 20 Apr 2007 Posts: 241 Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:09 am Post subject: |
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I'm really sorry to see you go, but as one of the "betrayers", I have to say that no one meant what happened for evil reasons. When you guys left, we didn't know what the situation with DC was. We still don't know anything. We weren't there with him and Bridget to bond with them as people. All we knew was that our friends were going out to the middle of nowhere with some secret, fanatical, possible cult member who we didn't know if we could trust. We lost communication and worried. When Art elevated those concerns and then disappeared himself, we tried the only outlet left to us. Damn, Art was going up there anyway without us even getting involved. For all we know he was going to kill DC on site.
I'm sorry for what happened, but I can't turn back time and we did what we thought was protecting you at the time. I'd LOVE to hear all about BA and DC so I can finally learn about what's driving the people who have been pushing us along for the past few months. On that note, I'm really looking forward to your next post Map. The first was top notch.
And Rowan, you'll always be welcomed on my end. I wish all you the best. I still think our fates are tied and ultimately we are working towards the same goals, even if we now go by different paths. |
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Lovek

Joined: 21 Apr 2007 Posts: 252 Location: Kansas City
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:19 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, you're right, Rowan. We weren't there. And as far as we knew, they'd taken you all up there never to return. Art gave us hope that you'd be alright if he helped, and you were our primary concern.
Not DC. Not even BA.
Risky? Yeah. Our only shot? Well, I think you know it was.
Had we had any idea of what they'd planned to do, I'd say we'd have been much more cautious.
So, in short, something happened up on that mountain that changed your mind, and none of you seem overly-enthusiastic about telling us what that something was.
We understand you're tired, but that doesn't mean you're allowed to just turn your back and walk away. We did what we thought was best for the Sentries, even if it was risky. You'd have done the same.
So explain. Tell us why we're wrong. _________________ "Mayhem achieved, boredom relieved” - Bruce McCall |
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Mar_Vell

Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 143 Location: Florida
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| Lovek wrote: |
So explain. Tell us why we're wrong. |
I'm with Lovek on this one. All we could do was hope that you weren't taken hostage or worse and the only communication we had with WV was through Art. There was no way we could have known what was really going on up there. What would you have done? _________________ "We dream of her dreaming of Emmet dreaming of her. " -Devon Conrad |
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Mapmaker

Joined: 20 Apr 2007 Posts: 236 Location: Honolulu, HI
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:54 am Post subject: I'll respond to Rowan's stuff in the morning... |
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Oops, I was wrong. There were no revelations before the Feast. Except, perhaps, that we forgot the tomatoes for the chili. Dee had to make due with Campbell's tomato soup that some thoughtful soul left for us. We sat down to dinner and dug in to the chili (which, to our relief, contained none of our flesh) and the rest of the food. We've thought long and hard about the Feast itself, and none of us can remember actually talking about anything. The only things that happened were: Varin remarking on the silence and asking "How 'bout dem Bears?"; the window flying open and someone asking if it was Emmet; and Varin holding up her steak knife to show she could take Emmet if the need arose.
Varin's bravado would not be necessary, however. As the meal wrapped up and we pressed to know more about Emmet's arrival, Dee and Biff went outside. Devon finally asked JD when we could expect Emmet, and JD replied saying that we just need to go to sleep. Devon was confused - since the feast was over, where was Emmet? Something wasn't right. Devon and JD went back and forth a bit, not quite understanding the other, until JD looked at Devon with disbelief and asked, "You don't think Emmet's actually coming here, do you?"
You can imagine the mix of shock and disappointment that fell over the room. Devon didn't quite understand - or didn't want to understand - the implications of what JD was saying. So JD spelled it out for him: Emmet came to them in their dreams, not the real world. At this point, Devon lost it. Not angrily, not loudly. He just sat there, muttering things to himself and no one in particular, seemingly working through the statement that JD had just made. JD now stood up. His frustration and dismay were visible as he said, "I knew this was a mistake." He had earlier mentioned that the other Dreamers had stayed away from this Feast because Devon and us were there, and that they had not many any friends by associating with Devon. JD said, "the others were right about you" and that this whole thing, the Feast, bringing us here, bringing Devon here, was a mistake. As he went out to tell Dee, he apologized to us, saying that he was sorry if were led to believe that we would be meeting Emmet in the real world.
Dee and Biff quickly reentered the cabin. To be honest, our memories of what happened until the next morning is a bit hazy. Parts of the conversation may be out of order or missing entirely. But the critical information is still here. I forgot to mention that Bridget had been insisting to Devon, JD, Dee, and us that she would stay for the Scream. All the Dreamers in the area leave for it - Emmet instructs them to, and the implication is that they would not survive it. They were aghast at the idea. Sure that he would side with them, JD and the others told her to wait for Emmet to come. But now, her resolve to stay was reiterated. In the discussion of the Scream, we found that Dee did not know what happened to people who stay. We then told her about the Miskatonic Massacre and the thirteen who died there.
I will forgo narrative structure at this point, because we don't have a fucking clue as to how all of this came up. But here goes:
- We asked them what Emmet was. What did he look like? Why do they trust him? They responded that it was a feeling, something they knew to be true. They said he was a man, and Dee said he looked scruffy, but elaborated no further.
- It came up that Devon had been present with Chorazos in Atlanta during the ritual. He wanted us to see what was in there. Probably because of this, yours truly created a picture-perfect rendering of the scene Sapagoo found. It would later (or maybe earlier) come up that one of the things that Devon had done for Chorazos was deliver hard drives from place to place. He claimed to have had very little responsibility in the cult, and that he didn't know what they were up to. He also claimed that he originally joined Chorazos because he felt something was missing in his life, and sought to fill the void.
- It came up that Kevin had been present at the ritual in Atlanta. This confused us greatly, because Kevin was dead before the ritual Sapagoo had found. Coupling this with the fact that Bridget keeps seeing Kevin in his dreams, we conjectured that somehow he was zombie-like alive in some weird way. This turned out to be misguided, as Devon subsequently told us that there were multiple rituals in Atlanta (that may have been different in nature than the one Sapagoo came upon). Devon said that he was with them for a few rituals, then.
- During the conversation, Dee's electromagnetic sensitivity came up. Varin pointed out that they were not alone in feeling this way - that there were web sites devoted to where the "Hum" is least felt in the area. Dee had not always felt this way - it had been getting worse recently, and Varin conjectured that it might be because of something that Chorazos was doing - Lucky5, for instance.
- While we were grilling Devon, Bridget pulled out her tarot cards. She read that Devon had recently accepted a large sum of money and regretted it. Quickly fearing for our safety, we wondered if we had been set up. I then proposed to JD that maybe the reason Devon was so upset about Emmet being only in the dreamscape was because he had promised to deliver Emmet to Chorazos. JD asked Devon about this, and he said no, that the money was for February, and that Chorazos would attempt the interrupted ritual Sapagoo found then during the full lunar eclipse. In continuing the tarot, Bridget concluded that Devon had backed himself into a corner from which there was no escape. He kind of started to freak out at this point, not knowing what to do. Someone commented that there was always a choice - but Dee held that his choice was at the beginning, when he decided to join Chorazos.
- It seems Chorazos is similar to the mob. Once you join, you are always a member, and squealing leads to the ultimate repercussion. He couldn't leave, because they would kill him. We were obviously concerned for our own safety, and Dee and JD were afraid that he had either been followed or were leading them to us. We assured them that we didn't ourselves know where we were going ahead of time, and so the chances of Chorazos finding us in the backwoods of Pocahontas County were slim. Devon reassured them that he took great precautions, and meant no malice - he simply wanted us to meet Emmet. It was at this point that JD unsheathed the dagger he had hidden in his boot, and raising above his head, took aim at Devon's heart. His aim was true and blood squirted all over the pie. Wait, no, just kidding. I did, however, make the argument that if Chorazos was on there way, we couldn't do anything about it.
After we finished dessert, we decided we needed a break from the action, and decided to tell ghost stories. Because, you know, we weren't scared enough. I'd been looking forward to reading from the ghost story book of the Appalachians we found in the cabin, but it turned out it was written by a college professor in the beautifully stilted language that only academics can produce. We're talking stuff about the gold standard, municipal politics, psychosocial crap and other stuff. However, others came to the rescue: Bridget, who told a few stories about things that happened to her friends; Dee, who told a slew of stories about the ghosts she felt often; and Varin, about the ghost that turned out to be a squirrel.
Then it was time for sleep. Foremost in Dee's mind after this had all transpired was for Bridget's safety, from dangers cultish, natural, or mystical. After discussion, it was decided that BA would sleep on the floor of our cabin. Emmet was coming tonight, and none of us really felt ready for it. As the room fell dark, I tried to fall asleep up in my top bunk. The smokiness of the room didn't help matters, and neither did the eerie feeling that came over me. As I was nodding off, I suddenly was overcome with a strong sense of déjà vu. I felt that I had been in that cabin before, with these six people. And I had the strange and urgent sensation that I had to jump down off the bed and protect Bridget. I can't explain it. It wasn't while anything else was happening, and I stayed in my bed. But it would rattle me a few hours later.
At 1:20 AM, the still peace of the night was shattered by a piercing, relentless, desperate scream. As we woke from our slumber, in the confusion we all screamed along, until we found it was Bridget, frantically flailing on the floor. As Rowan, who was sleeping on the floor as well, went to her side to comfort her, we all became very worried about our surroundings - particularly Varin, who upon waking in the other top bunk shot straight up and hit her head on the ceiling. Bridget cried out for Devon, wanting to know if he was OK. Panicked, Biff went to the window with a flashlight and called for them. They had already woken up from the screams, and ran to the door. My thought was that we would find the shredded remains of a tent outside (given Dee's continued comments about the presence of bears and how her and JD's campsite had been ripped to shreds by a bear a week prior), with the dead bodies of JD and Dee and no sign of Devon. Varin had a different thought in the confusion and early-morning terror: that JD and Dee would come to us with blood on their hands, and we would find their handiwork, Devon's corpse, outside.
And now, an aside. Much has been made of my so-called hatchetmania. I would like to take this opportunity to set the record straight. Given the many possibilities of what may have happened - evil cultists come to our door, a massive bear roaming through the campsite, murderous Dreamers following the words of an unseen and unquestioned advisor being just a few - I felt it prudent to be prepared. I did not, as some thought, have the hatchet under my pillow. No, as I jumped down from the bed, wanting to know what the hell was going on, as I waited for the campers outside to come to the door, I sat down in a chair at the foot of my bed. On the chair next to me was my hoodie, which I put on, and underneath it, I noticed one of the hatchets we had been using to chop wood. (Thanks, Varin.) Not knowing what might come through the door, I picked it up. That's all. I didn't "wield" it, it was just in my hand.
Despite our worst thoughts, Dee, JD, and Devon ran into the cabin, unharmed, but visibly shaken. In fact, in the rush, Dee lost her hat and one of her gloves. It turned out Bridget had had a bad dream. Perhaps we should have expected it, given that each and every dream sequence she submitted to Craigslist ended with her screaming and waking up, but it took us completely by surprise. She went into the details of her dream (a written version she gave to Rowan for posting on Craigslist). It started with her waking in her apartment, as usual, but instead of rushing out to the elevator, she instead found a note from Emmet. It simply said, "It's your turn." She left the building, went through the forest, and arrived at the winged angel Hope. Instead of the broken angel she had found night after night, Hope was now whole, and Bridget watched, the angel took flight and left the pedestal. Hope was gone. Wanting to know what it was that Hope had been pointing at all this time, Bridget climbed atop the pedestal and looked to the sky. What she saw there, she could not describe. She said it was like when at night you look at the cosmos, and feel it staring back at you; you feel so small and insignificant. When it looked at her, it was like it knew her.
JD, Dee, and Devon also had the dream, in a way. They entered the dream following her, trailing a distance through the forest. When they arrived at Hope's pedestal, they saw Bridget, standing atop it, pointing at the sky. But next to her, whispering something they could not detect into her ear, was a woman. Bridget insisted she was alone, and saw and heard nothing. But the three knew they saw her. They could not describe her well, only to say she may have been of dark complexion. The first person to spring to our minds was Marie, but no one but Bridget knows what she looks like, and she didn't see her. In retrospect, I am hesitant to say it was Marie, as it doesn't really make that much sense, but it's what we were considering at the time. Perhaps most upsetting to the Dreamers was that Emmet did not appear to them - only the note was found. At one point it was debated as to whether the note was really from Emmet, but JD and others figured that if it wasn't, then Emmet would have come to them and said so. Looking back, this theory seems unlikely.
We debated the meaning of the note, to no real end, but as a result of the dream, Bridget was even more convinced that she needed to stay for the Scream. JD and Dee did not like this at all, especially given that Emmet went missing at the Feast. Besides, they reasoned, there are dangers aside from the Scream. Bridget revealed that she felt that after the dream with the radio tower, she could handle the Scream, and that it was a risk she had to take. In the discussion of all of this, Devon volunteered to stay with Bridget through the Scream. It was clear to us, the Dreamers, and presumably both Bridget and Devon that he would most likely not survive the dangers the Scream would bring. This bothered him not, for he felt it was his duty, his calling to protect Saint Feline. JD and Dee urged Bridget to reconsider, but the best she would agree to was that she would sleep on it.
It was late, and our memories have failed us, but one last item of note before we fell asleep, this time for good. At some point the topic of our fallen friends here at the Outpost came up, in particular Kevin. Bridget, unprompted, mentioned that she had kissed him before he left. He just smiled in response, but she had always harbored thoughts that had she not kissed him, he would not have taken his own life. We consoled her, telling her that that was ridiculous - Rowan pointed out that in cases like these, everyone looks at their actions for something they might have done differently to have changed the outcome. I hope that offered her some comfort, as the night was cold, and she would have difficultly returning to bed.
To be concluded in the morning... |
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Octopiii

Joined: 22 Apr 2007 Posts: 74 Location: Portland
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:45 am Post subject: |
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A) Wow, I so wish I could have been there. It sounds like an experience!
B) Sounds like (from rowan at least) that we may have screwed the pooch on calling in peter. I take it from the people who were there that they believe that DC and BA are to be trusted?
C) So what now, kids? We have a mystery and not a lot of clues. Some help on this aspect would be good - I think we all agree we want chorazos to fail on whatever they're trying to accomplish. |
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Noyb

Joined: 01 Aug 2007 Posts: 135
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| Mapmaker wrote: |
| But talking with Bridget was another story. She knew I had talked a lot with Marie. She would too, in her dreams, at the coffee shop. When she said to me, "She's dead, you know", I answered honestly: "Yes." I've known it for a while. Both Bridget and I could feel it, and it hurts. It was comforting to have someone there to share the pain with. Bridget also told us about the guilt she feels over Kevin. Something else we could commiserate over. The pain she feels - you can see it in her eyes. |
| Rowan wrote: |
You weren't the one holding a shaking BA in your arms as she cried out for DC so I don't expect you to understand where I'm coming from. And you weren't the one that failed to protect DC when the time came, so you can't understand how betrayed I feel by those of you who helped Art. But I do feel betrayed and it shows me that there is now a line drawn and that SO is on the wrong side of that line for me. I'm sorry it has to be like this, but one must do what one must do. And I have to protect the Dreamers.
Goodbye. |
You're right. We weren't there. We didn't meet them face-to-face, so we couldn't implicitly trust them like you do. You didn't stay in contact, leaving us worried sick all weekend. Howard was having flashbacks to the Miskatonic massacre. Varin's husband was frightened for her safety. You dropped off the grid with a suspected Chorazos, so we took some calculated risks to reestablish contact. You weren't here this weekend, waiting by the phone for the sound of your voices, fearing the worst.
Incidentally, didn't you have some of our numbers? Could you have called collect on the payphone? _________________ "Some humans would do almost anything to see if it was possible to do it. If you put a large switch in some cave somewhere with a sign on it saying ‘End of the World Switch, Please Do Not Touch’ the paint wouldn’t have time to dry." - Terry Pratchett |
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Biff

Joined: 22 Apr 2007 Posts: 439
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| Noyb wrote: |
| Incidentally, didn't you have some of our numbers? Could you have called collect on the payphone? |
Actually, no we couldn't.
See the payphone thing was near useless. The logistics of the situation guaranteed that we had nobody at the base of the mountain to "man the phones". Even if we did, we wouldn't have been able to communicate with them.
Art may have been able to get close with a radio and an ATV had he been provided them, but his expectation to get a message to us with unreliable communications was rather misguided. Really Art, these are open FRS frequencies. $20 at Radio Shack and you would have been set (that's what I did). So this thought must not have occurred to him, because I even periodically turned on my handset and scanned for activity and found...nothing. Also, Map and I got "bars" at the top of the fire-tower, but neither calls nor text would go through.
All this said, I don't want to see a schism of the SO community. We all have the same goal, only different methods to reach it. I can't speak to Rowan's decision as it is her personal choice. While I do understand why she made it, I can't condone it. By the same token, I understand why Sentries did what they felt they had to do to protect the campers. I'd rather not see anyone leave over this. We need everyone we can get here. This is much bigger than a single "trip to the woods" and there is a lot we still don't know.
"The campers" are not "special". We want to share all the information we have so that we can all make logical decisions with facts, or a close facsimile thereof. A lot happened up on that mountain over the weekend, and while Mapmaker has captured the majority, small details will inevitably be missed (Fatigue will do that to you) and filled in as we remember them. That's why this thread is here. In fact, I may just split this thread into two, one for accounts and one for discussion.
Bickering amongst ourselves helps Terrorists Chorazos win. |
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Mar_Vell

Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 143 Location: Florida
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:57 am Post subject: |
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| Biff wrote: |
Bickering amongst ourselves helps Terrorists Chorazos win. |
That's exactly what I was going to say. _________________ "We dream of her dreaming of Emmet dreaming of her. " -Devon Conrad |
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Varin

Joined: 20 Apr 2007 Posts: 40
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:08 am Post subject: |
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It's surreal reading that email after this weekend's events.  _________________ "It's something else. It's very big and it lives somewhere in the deep dark depths of the ocean. And it goes bloop." |
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Varin

Joined: 20 Apr 2007 Posts: 40
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| Biff wrote: |
| (Fatigue will do that to you) |
Yeah really guys. Please give us a little slack. I completely understand that that you were all panicking when you didn't hear from us, but we did what we could. We really did.
Just try to keep in mind that we were (and still are) all exhausted. Not "omg, I stayed up all night studying for finals" exhausted. We were pushed mentally and physically all weekend... and then had to drive home without killing ourselves. If everyone else is feeling as I do, they're functioning at about 30% right now.
I understand why Rowan feels so upset. We were forced to make a decision this weekend to protect BA and DC. We had no idea if it was the right decision when we had to physically hold DC back so that BA could prepare to face the Scream alone. The disappointment in his eyes afterwards, along with JD's was hard to take. Dee didn't even give us that. She stormed off without a word.
We didn't know what to think when we saw DC get kidnapped that night. To come home and find that Providence is probably responsible for that event is heartbreaking. I'm not going to blame you for your decision, because you didn't know everything we did. Still, it is very hard to read the emails that were sent to Peter and not feel hurt... whether it's rational to feel that way or not. _________________ "It's something else. It's very big and it lives somewhere in the deep dark depths of the ocean. And it goes bloop." |
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Dav Flamerock

Joined: 27 Apr 2007 Posts: 450 Location: East Bay, CA
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:22 am Post subject: |
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I'm sorry.
There's no point in trying to rationalize why we did it--you said you already understand, but I know that understanding won't take away all of the negative feelings you are experiencing. We shouldn't go off on you, but we would like you not to go off on us as well. Rowan makes me sad because we lost another Sentry, and it wasn't even to something we couldn't have stopped, it was to a miscommunication. Or rather a non-communication, so it seems.
I'll wait until I read the rest of Map's story before I comment more. |
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Dante

Joined: 20 Apr 2007 Posts: 578 Location: Chicago, IL
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| Varin wrote: |
| Yeah really guys. Please give us a little slack. |
I could say the same thing to Rowan about her decision to blame us for DC's kidnapping.
Speaking of which:
| Varin wrote: |
| I understand why Rowan feels so upset. We were forced to make a decision this weekend to protect BA and DC. We had no idea if it was the right decision when we had to physically hold DC back so that BA could prepare to face the Scream alone. The disappointment in his eyes afterwards, along with JD's was hard to take. Dee didn't even give us that. She stormed off without a word. |
Again, we still don't know what the heck happened, so our reactions are based on an incomplete understanding of events. I am trying (unsuccessfully, it seems) to wait patiently... |
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